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General Discussion / Ken Mattingly
« on: November 04, 2023, 10:55:05 pm »
I'm curious whether anyone have links to notable audio clips referencing or involving Ken Mattingly?
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Very little of the thousands of hours of Mission Control audio on the website has been heard or documented. As you find moments of interest, post them here for discussion.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 133:58:34 Reed: "If this damn PGNS gets in the way, I'm gonna raise hell!"
« on: October 16, 2023, 07:22:04 pm »
You can really hear the exhaustion and frustration in their voices and language. In the movie, there some scenes that showed the astronauts getting testy over time, but in the movie the mission controllers are always pretty calm.
In reality though, constant work, little sleep, maybe sleeping on floors and not showering for a few days, takes its toll. CAPCOM Jack Lousma sounds as cool as always of course.
In reality though, constant work, little sleep, maybe sleeping on floors and not showering for a few days, takes its toll. CAPCOM Jack Lousma sounds as cool as always of course.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 068:57:10 Discussion about DPS engine liner problem
« on: September 27, 2023, 10:37:56 pm »
To save future readers some googling, GOSS means "Ground Operational Support System", can't say I know what they do exactly.
What is the "liner" that the speakers are so concerned about?
By the way, SPAN is transcribed as SPAM in this clip.
What is the "liner" that the speakers are so concerned about?
By the way, SPAN is transcribed as SPAM in this clip.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 057:53:58 Kamman and Hutchinson need quick and dirty answer on IMU heaters
« on: September 11, 2023, 04:25:17 am »
One of them says that they are "down to one fuel cell". I'm not sure if Dick Freund understood fully that they would soon have not one but rather zero fuel cells remaining in about 10 minutes.
I love these dialogs between the specialists in one system who want the whole spacecraft to support that system and the Flight Director. It was critical that Flight, whether Gene Kranz or here Glynn Lunney, understood the technical details and how they all fit together and could make key decisions.
This also reminds me of the Kranz speech in the movie about how they want to contact every person who built every component on the spacecraft. It is kind of impressive that they could quickly get to the IMU or IMU heater manufacturer to get a quick test of how it would respond to cold temperatures. It's really rather extraordinary, that means of all the thousands of critical components in the entire spacecraft, NASA must have had the manufacturers standing by for immediate, expert advice and even testing. What an amazing time.
I love these dialogs between the specialists in one system who want the whole spacecraft to support that system and the Flight Director. It was critical that Flight, whether Gene Kranz or here Glynn Lunney, understood the technical details and how they all fit together and could make key decisions.
This also reminds me of the Kranz speech in the movie about how they want to contact every person who built every component on the spacecraft. It is kind of impressive that they could quickly get to the IMU or IMU heater manufacturer to get a quick test of how it would respond to cold temperatures. It's really rather extraordinary, that means of all the thousands of critical components in the entire spacecraft, NASA must have had the manufacturers standing by for immediate, expert advice and even testing. What an amazing time.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 140:03:43 RETRO Chuck Deiterich gets spooked by YAW
« on: August 17, 2023, 11:45:09 pm »
It's interesting how the speech patterns under pressure of some of the controllers are sometimes clues to their background, specifically whether they had military piloting or only civilian experience. Gene Kranz, the astronauts, the CapCom all clearly were pilots just from their speech patterns that were virtually unaffected by pressure. Sy Liebergot ("Nooo...") clearly was not military. Gene Kranz, cool and calm the entire time, clearly was.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: Apollo 13 Film vs Reality
« on: August 06, 2023, 02:53:42 pm »
Regarding the biomed sensors, I've always been a little unclear as to exactly how severe Fred Haise's fever was (I've seen reports of 104 degrees) and what was done for it. Was he taking antibiotics? If he really did have a high fever, then medical sensors would have been useful, if just to monitor his temperature.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / "Y'all looking for me", and an allusion to looking for John Aaron
« on: August 05, 2023, 02:57:29 pm »
https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=056:41:44&ch=46
This is from the SPAN.
56:41:43 [Speaker 1]. Hey Bill, y'all looking for me?
56:41:48: [Speaker 2] Looking for John Aaron
56:41:50: [Speaker 1] Did you try his house?
[Larry] 56:41:52: This is Larry. We found John. You might want to come in also. There are some very serious problems.
[Speaker 1]: Like what?
[Larry]: Two fuel cells and a couple of O2 tanks. Gone.
[Speaker 1]: Hmm. OK.
[Larry]: So we're trying to muster up all the hands we can....it looks like both of the O2 tanks.
I wonder if everyone was looking for John Aaron just because he was so well respected in EECOM, and not just because of the SCE. There's an exchange in the EECOM during Glynn Lunney's shift in which EECOM/ECS are looking at the pressure readings and John Aaron confidently seems to know from memory the exact ambient pressure and temperature readings of liquid O2, something the other controllers did not seem to know. Just that exchange gave me the sense that John Aaron was as remarkable as his reputation. (Oddly enough, during that exchange the rest of the EECOM did not seem to pay a lot of attention but there was a lot going on).
Be that as it may, I thought perhaps the above exchange had some points of interest.
This is from the SPAN.
56:41:43 [Speaker 1]. Hey Bill, y'all looking for me?
56:41:48: [Speaker 2] Looking for John Aaron
56:41:50: [Speaker 1] Did you try his house?
[Larry] 56:41:52: This is Larry. We found John. You might want to come in also. There are some very serious problems.
[Speaker 1]: Like what?
[Larry]: Two fuel cells and a couple of O2 tanks. Gone.
[Speaker 1]: Hmm. OK.
[Larry]: So we're trying to muster up all the hands we can....it looks like both of the O2 tanks.
I wonder if everyone was looking for John Aaron just because he was so well respected in EECOM, and not just because of the SCE. There's an exchange in the EECOM during Glynn Lunney's shift in which EECOM/ECS are looking at the pressure readings and John Aaron confidently seems to know from memory the exact ambient pressure and temperature readings of liquid O2, something the other controllers did not seem to know. Just that exchange gave me the sense that John Aaron was as remarkable as his reputation. (Oddly enough, during that exchange the rest of the EECOM did not seem to pay a lot of attention but there was a lot going on).
Be that as it may, I thought perhaps the above exchange had some points of interest.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 033:23:00 SPAN is such a Lady Killer...
« on: August 05, 2023, 01:38:47 pm »
Beautiful find there. The SPAN guy (who's voice sounds familiar) was complaining about how he's "been awful busy running around doing 15 million things" [33:24:02] and later "we got three or four little ditties going on with the spacecraft".
If he's busy at 33:24 I wonder how he'll feel in 24 hours?
The clip is also culturally significant and interesting [somewhat reminds me perhaps a bit of the scene where Miss Scott calls General Turgidson in the war room, at the end of which Turgidson tells Scott to be sure and say her prayers].
I don't think it's possible to determine the precise "spooky story" that the woman was reading, but in theory it might be possible to figure out the James Cagney "murder mystery" she was watching on April 12, 1970 in which Cagney has "knives." This would have been broadcast at about 9:00 PM in Florida.
If he's busy at 33:24 I wonder how he'll feel in 24 hours?
The clip is also culturally significant and interesting [somewhat reminds me perhaps a bit of the scene where Miss Scott calls General Turgidson in the war room, at the end of which Turgidson tells Scott to be sure and say her prayers].
I don't think it's possible to determine the precise "spooky story" that the woman was reading, but in theory it might be possible to figure out the James Cagney "murder mystery" she was watching on April 12, 1970 in which Cagney has "knives." This would have been broadcast at about 9:00 PM in Florida.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 124:23:10 Jim Shepherd discusses the accident and the response
« on: August 04, 2023, 04:32:25 am »
Excellent find here. Not so obvious to look at the BOOSTER tapes this late in the mission.
It's worth noting the exchange https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=124:27:41&ch=47 at 124:27:41 that reveals that the simulator team was working 24 hours straight but finally got exhausted and had to take a break. I feel like this highlights the dedication of the team:
124:27:41 I don't see anyone around here.
124:27:42 They've been doing things with the [K-Band?] here continuously on almost a 24-hour basis.
124:27:47 Yeah.
124:27:49 They gave them some time off yesterday because we only had one simulator team, and they had been going 24 hours.
It's worth noting the exchange https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=124:27:41&ch=47 at 124:27:41 that reveals that the simulator team was working 24 hours straight but finally got exhausted and had to take a break. I feel like this highlights the dedication of the team:
124:27:41 I don't see anyone around here.
124:27:42 They've been doing things with the [K-Band?] here continuously on almost a 24-hour basis.
124:27:47 Yeah.
124:27:49 They gave them some time off yesterday because we only had one simulator team, and they had been going 24 hours.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: "We've got a good problem" but I forget where I heard it
« on: July 30, 2023, 11:05:42 pm »
Thank you very much for the information. Here's my transcript of this exchange:
-----------
59:06:29 Procedures [Jim Fucci]: EECOM, Procedures, Mobile 1.
EECOM [Clint Burton]: Listen, I'd like to get a dedicated chart recorder to display back that Format 30, subformat 01
Procedures: Stand by. Format 30 subformat..
EECOM: 01
Procedures: ... 01
EECOM: Time 55:50 to 56:10
Procedures: [repeating] 55:50 to 56:10
EECOM: right, and whatever site was looking at it at that time, doesn't matter which one.
Procedures: Goldstone.
59:07:25 EECOM: Procedures, EECOM
Procedures: Go.
EECOM: OK, I was just informed that we had low bitrate at that time. We're going to have to try to do that FM/FM. I have to come back to you on that.
Procedures: [mildly annoyed] You guys got a DLOG on that thing
EECOM: Yeah, but we're looking for higher sample rates.
Procedures: [more annoyed and skeptical] Higher sample rate than a DLOG?
EECOM: Say again?
Procedures: You're saying, a higher sample rate than your DLOG?
EECOM: Yeah.
Procedures [indignantly]: Do you realize that FM/FM is going to take a 30 minute calibration and then a recalibration...
EECOM: We had a good problem here. We'd like to get all the data we can on it.
Procedures [skeptically]: Okaaaayy
EECOM: Let me get back to you with the pertinent information here.
Procedures: OK.
One reason I thought this was interesting is that it illustrates how some Procedures type people I've encountered behave in organizations I've worked at. They really like procedures and they really like additional work that alters those procedures, no matter what the reason. This conversation was about 3 hours after the accident when EECOM and many others were no doubt unsure if a successful return could even happen, and they obviously needed every possible bit of data they could get.
In general, I find the clashes between the different groups, each with their own specialties, for limited resources interesting. For example, when GNC insisted that the IMU heaters needed full power before Glynn objected (about 90 minutes after the accident I think); or GNC and EECOM both wanting a PTC roll just after the accident when every system on the CSM was failing and the CSM was venting before Gene demurred.
-----------
59:06:29 Procedures [Jim Fucci]: EECOM, Procedures, Mobile 1.
EECOM [Clint Burton]: Listen, I'd like to get a dedicated chart recorder to display back that Format 30, subformat 01
Procedures: Stand by. Format 30 subformat..
EECOM: 01
Procedures: ... 01
EECOM: Time 55:50 to 56:10
Procedures: [repeating] 55:50 to 56:10
EECOM: right, and whatever site was looking at it at that time, doesn't matter which one.
Procedures: Goldstone.
59:07:25 EECOM: Procedures, EECOM
Procedures: Go.
EECOM: OK, I was just informed that we had low bitrate at that time. We're going to have to try to do that FM/FM. I have to come back to you on that.
Procedures: [mildly annoyed] You guys got a DLOG on that thing
EECOM: Yeah, but we're looking for higher sample rates.
Procedures: [more annoyed and skeptical] Higher sample rate than a DLOG?
EECOM: Say again?
Procedures: You're saying, a higher sample rate than your DLOG?
EECOM: Yeah.
Procedures [indignantly]: Do you realize that FM/FM is going to take a 30 minute calibration and then a recalibration...
EECOM: We had a good problem here. We'd like to get all the data we can on it.
Procedures [skeptically]: Okaaaayy
EECOM: Let me get back to you with the pertinent information here.
Procedures: OK.
One reason I thought this was interesting is that it illustrates how some Procedures type people I've encountered behave in organizations I've worked at. They really like procedures and they really like additional work that alters those procedures, no matter what the reason. This conversation was about 3 hours after the accident when EECOM and many others were no doubt unsure if a successful return could even happen, and they obviously needed every possible bit of data they could get.
In general, I find the clashes between the different groups, each with their own specialties, for limited resources interesting. For example, when GNC insisted that the IMU heaters needed full power before Glynn objected (about 90 minutes after the accident I think); or GNC and EECOM both wanting a PTC roll just after the accident when every system on the CSM was failing and the CSM was venting before Gene demurred.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 027:01:18 SPAN calls CSM GNC to discuss a docked DPS burn
« on: July 30, 2023, 11:02:14 pm »
Thanks - that's an interesting exchange and also very interesting information you provided. Here's my transcript
Quote
59:06:29 Fucci (Procedures): EECOM, Procedures, Mobile 1.
Clint (EECOM): Listen, I'd like to get a dedicated chart recorder to display back that Format 30, subformat 01
Procedures: Stand by. Format 30 subformat..
EECOM: 01
Procedures: ... 01
EECOM: Time 55:50 to 56:10
Procedures: [repeating] 55:50 to 56:10
EECOM: right, and whatever site was looking at it at that time, doesn't matter which one.
Procedures: Goldstone.
59:07:25 EECOM: Procedures, EECOM
Procedures: Go.
EECOM: OK, I was just informed that we had low bitrate at that time. We're going to have to try to do that FM/FM. I have to come back to you on that.
Procedures: [mildly annoyed] You guys got a DLOG on that thing
EECOM: Yeah, but we're looking for higher sample rates.
Procedures: [more annoyed and skeptical] Higher sample rate than a DLOG?
EECOM: Say again?
Procedures: You're saying, a higher sample rate than your DLOG?
EECOM: Yeah.
Procedures [indignantly]: Do you realize that FM/FM is going to take a 30 minute calibration and then a recalibration...
EECOM: We had a good problem here. We'd like to get all the data we can on it.
Procedures [skeptically]: Okaaaayy
EECOM: Let me get back to you with the pertinent information here.
Procedures: OK.
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / "We've got a good problem" but I forget where I heard it
« on: July 24, 2023, 12:39:19 am »
This was an interesting exchange between I think INCO or maybe PROCEDURES and someone trying to get DLOGs I think.
The back room controller was trying to persuade some support person to do something with the network, maybe something complex involving getting a DLOG although I'm not sure. The back-end person was complaining that what was asked for would be a lot of work. The controller said something like "we've got a good problem here" and "we need the best data we can". The controller had a distinctive drawl. It was interesting because the exchange illustrated how, like humans throughout history, most workers were mostly interested in minimizing their own work. The obscure back-end person was probably accustomed to requests to do with simulations and tests and reflexively didn't want to do extra work. The back room controller was in a very understated way justifying his request.
Sadly, I forgot the time this occurred. Probably within 2 hours of the accident if not sooner.
The back room controller was trying to persuade some support person to do something with the network, maybe something complex involving getting a DLOG although I'm not sure. The back-end person was complaining that what was asked for would be a lot of work. The controller said something like "we've got a good problem here" and "we need the best data we can". The controller had a distinctive drawl. It was interesting because the exchange illustrated how, like humans throughout history, most workers were mostly interested in minimizing their own work. The obscure back-end person was probably accustomed to requests to do with simulations and tests and reflexively didn't want to do extra work. The back room controller was in a very understated way justifying his request.
Sadly, I forgot the time this occurred. Probably within 2 hours of the accident if not sooner.
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General Discussion / Re: Apollo 12 launch EECOM loop?
« on: July 11, 2023, 01:08:18 am »
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. At the same time, it is disappointing that this digitization is not a higher national priority. Particularly as analog media can degrade over time.
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General Discussion / Apollo 12 launch EECOM loop?
« on: July 10, 2023, 02:56:01 am »
This might be off-topic, at least for now, but does anyone know if the Apollo 12 launch EECOM loop (and maybe GNC too) is available somewhere?
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General Discussion / Listening to multiple loops efficiently
« on: July 06, 2023, 03:21:26 am »
What's the best way actually to listen to just the backroom chatter?
The problem I find is that all the loops seem to include the flight director loop. They also mostly, except for EECOM, have huge amounts of silence. So if I want to listen to say 8 loops in the 3 hours after the accident, I'm listening to the same Flight Director loop 8 times. 8 MORE times since much of it I've heard before many times. This would take 24 hours of real time and be super-boring after a while.
How have others addressed this issue?
The problem I find is that all the loops seem to include the flight director loop. They also mostly, except for EECOM, have huge amounts of silence. So if I want to listen to say 8 loops in the 3 hours after the accident, I'm listening to the same Flight Director loop 8 times. 8 MORE times since much of it I've heard before many times. This would take 24 hours of real time and be super-boring after a while.
How have others addressed this issue?
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