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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by bfeist on December 01, 2023, 02:20:20 PM »It's a hangup with the process, not the material. Every transfer is still pending.
This forum is for discussion about content found on https://apolloinrealtime.org
Very little of the thousands of hours of Mission Control audio on the website has been heard or documented. As you find moments of interest, post them here for discussion.
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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by Naraht on November 30, 2023, 08:58:45 AM »Short answer: NASA is having difficulty getting the historical tapes from the National Archives.Wow! Are there issues with other missions or just 16?
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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by bfeist on November 29, 2023, 03:57:24 PM »Short answer: NASA is having difficulty getting the historical tapes from the National Archives.
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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by Kasper on November 28, 2023, 04:53:39 AM »But why? There most be a good answer to that.
How much have been completed in percentage?)
It was stated here that the goal was to make it by the 50th aniversary of Apollo 16. Now we are approaching the 52nd.
How much have been completed in percentage?)
It was stated here that the goal was to make it by the 50th aniversary of Apollo 16. Now we are approaching the 52nd.
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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by Stephen Slater on November 27, 2023, 08:09:47 PM »Unfortunately it's more likely that I will be selected as an astronaut..... a very long way to go on Apollo 16!!
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by bfeist on November 27, 2023, 04:12:45 PM »They didn't have much of a keen eye on posterity, we (as historians) got lucky that the data they saved for other purposes could be repurposed for historical insight. The MOCR tapes were recorded for audit purposes in case an event such as an emergency occurred. The MOCR tapes were used in the Apollo 13 congressional investigation; in fact, we were only able to track down the tapes that covered the period of the onboard explosion several years after finding the main body of Apollo 13 MOCR tapes at the national archives. They were stored with the rest of the Apollo 13 investigation material. The same goes for transcripts--these were used to construct the "as flown" version of the flight plan of each mission and therefore inform the planning of subsequent missions. The list goes on.
I work at NASA on the Artemis missions now and am doing my best to ensure that flight information is stored in context--in a way that won't require a group like the Apollo in Real Time team to reconstruct the events 50 years from now. Those future generations won't have typewritten documents to work with. They'll have MS Teams meeting recordings and piles of Sharepoint data all of course in formats that are unreadable to those future generations without tremendous sleuthing.
I work at NASA on the Artemis missions now and am doing my best to ensure that flight information is stored in context--in a way that won't require a group like the Apollo in Real Time team to reconstruct the events 50 years from now. Those future generations won't have typewritten documents to work with. They'll have MS Teams meeting recordings and piles of Sharepoint data all of course in formats that are unreadable to those future generations without tremendous sleuthing.
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by MadDogBV on November 27, 2023, 09:30:18 AM »Documentary authors have to weave a difficult line between being making a film that is appealing and compelling in the narrative sense, which does involve taking creative liberties, versus being as historically accurate as possible. Once upon a time, I thought it was more important to adhere to the latter principle, but I've come to realize that when most film reviewers - be they a professional like Roger Ebert or just the word of a friend whom you trust - scrutineer documentaries about topics such as the space program, they're not so concerned about whether or not the biomed readings were accurate. They are more focused on ensuring that the drama, ambition, wonderment, and scientific innovation of that time period was successfully captured on film so that the viewer can relive an enthralling and engaging if not believable simulation of those pivotal moments in human history.
Frankly, compared to other frequently-espoused historical myths, the implications of that rather pales in comparison to something like the infamous "the two stood eye to eye and the other fellow blinked" in reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis, a myth that persists in popular AND historical media to this day. 😁 I'd say "Apollo 11" gets a pass.
For strictly reliable secondary sources of the events that took place during the Apollo program, the best place to go would probably be the Apollo Flight Journal - and as for primary sources, I would say those would be the MOCR tapes themselves. It's wonderful that NASA had such a keen eye towards posterity particularly in those days.
Frankly, compared to other frequently-espoused historical myths, the implications of that rather pales in comparison to something like the infamous "the two stood eye to eye and the other fellow blinked" in reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis, a myth that persists in popular AND historical media to this day. 😁 I'd say "Apollo 11" gets a pass.
For strictly reliable secondary sources of the events that took place during the Apollo program, the best place to go would probably be the Apollo Flight Journal - and as for primary sources, I would say those would be the MOCR tapes themselves. It's wonderful that NASA had such a keen eye towards posterity particularly in those days.
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by Stephen Slater on November 27, 2023, 08:44:53 AM »I was the archive producer of the "Apollo 11" film.
As Ben says, there's nothing materially misleading in the film, and any "liberties" that were taken are well within the boundaries of acceptable techniques for documentary makers.
It could be argued that the Collins biomed sensor quote mentioned was in some way misleading, but I don't think it really matters where that line was used because it doesn't pertain to any particular significant milestone in the flight, and we aren't claiming that it was. It essentially could have happened at any point... I think there would be more of an issue if we'd specifically linked it to an important sequence, e.g placing it during the landing.
The same goes for the "Mother Country" music sequence... the section of the on board audio when we know the music was played wasn't from Day 7, it was from when they were in lunar orbit... but this makes no material difference... they had the music with them on the on board tapes, and as used in the film it's essentially a montage sequence, backed by a song they were historically verified as having with them. The audience understands the "rules" of the "deception", for instance as Ben says, they know when we see a shot of the command module with Mike Collins "alone" in lunar orbit that there wasn't a cameraman out there filming him in a spacecraft while Neil and Buzz were on the surface.
The problem is where filmmakers actually try and change the historical events to suit the narrative they want to tell, and change the historical truth of events, so that would be us including something like Neil Armstrong throwing the bracelet into the crater for his daughter... we don't have any evidence that it happened, so it's inappropriate to use that in a documentary. Where these boundaries are can be subjective, but I think most credible documentarians understand where the line is.
As Ben says, there's nothing materially misleading in the film, and any "liberties" that were taken are well within the boundaries of acceptable techniques for documentary makers.
It could be argued that the Collins biomed sensor quote mentioned was in some way misleading, but I don't think it really matters where that line was used because it doesn't pertain to any particular significant milestone in the flight, and we aren't claiming that it was. It essentially could have happened at any point... I think there would be more of an issue if we'd specifically linked it to an important sequence, e.g placing it during the landing.
The same goes for the "Mother Country" music sequence... the section of the on board audio when we know the music was played wasn't from Day 7, it was from when they were in lunar orbit... but this makes no material difference... they had the music with them on the on board tapes, and as used in the film it's essentially a montage sequence, backed by a song they were historically verified as having with them. The audience understands the "rules" of the "deception", for instance as Ben says, they know when we see a shot of the command module with Mike Collins "alone" in lunar orbit that there wasn't a cameraman out there filming him in a spacecraft while Neil and Buzz were on the surface.
The problem is where filmmakers actually try and change the historical events to suit the narrative they want to tell, and change the historical truth of events, so that would be us including something like Neil Armstrong throwing the bracelet into the crater for his daughter... we don't have any evidence that it happened, so it's inappropriate to use that in a documentary. Where these boundaries are can be subjective, but I think most credible documentarians understand where the line is.
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General Discussion / Re: Apollo 11 Distance from Earth Mistake
« Last post by bfeist on November 26, 2023, 01:26:59 PM »Sorry for the delay. Thank you for this, yes it was a mistake. It has been corrected.
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General Discussion / Re: Is the moon sphere of influence included in the velocity stats?
« Last post by bfeist on November 26, 2023, 01:23:27 PM »Sorry for the super long delay. Somehow I missed your message.
The numbers are always Earth referenced in the dashboard. The TEI burn doesn't contain the velocity changes because they weren't being announced by the PAO--the Apollo in Real Time team didn't have any mission telemetry streams to work with as that data was all discarded after the mission.
The numbers are always Earth referenced in the dashboard. The TEI burn doesn't contain the velocity changes because they weren't being announced by the PAO--the Apollo in Real Time team didn't have any mission telemetry streams to work with as that data was all discarded after the mission.