This forum is for discussion about content found on https://apolloinrealtime.org 

Very little of the thousands of hours of Mission Control audio on the website has been heard or documented. As you find moments of interest, post them here for discussion.

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Background:
Although the FIDO is nominally and de facto the "leader of the trench" (save, of course, for the Chief of the Flight Dynamics branch), there was most certainly still an unwritten hierarchy that existed within the trench's corps. Jay Greene and Dave Reed were widely (and rightfully) regarded as the most experienced and most skilled FIDOs who got assigned to most if not all of the powered flight duties (liftoff and lunar descent) since they would need to have the confidence and nerves to know whether or not to call an abort. Bill Stoval was the midcourse man, and he oversaw two of the midcourses during Apollo 13 - the SPS GNN midcourse to a hybrid trajectory, and the manual DPS burn midcourse for corridor control. Bill Boone was the other FIDO scheduled to work.

As of the time of Apollo 13, Boone had been in the Flight Dynamics SSR during Apollo 4 and had also been a FIDO in Apollo 7, Apollo 11, and Apollo 12. Glynn Lunney's shift after the accident was intended to have the crew asleep starting at around 60 hours. Instead, at 61:30, they executed the DPS midcourse to free return, and Boone provided the trajectory for this. The original burn would have put them in the middle of Madagascar, until RETRO Tom Weichel asked FIDO to move it off the land into the Indian Ocean.

He had been regarded as a "junior controller". From Ed Pavelka's oral history:

Quote
]"In this particular flight we were introducing several new flight controllers, and we actually had dual assignments on some of the shifts. I was with another controller, Bill [William J.] Boone [III], who was a junior controller. So I was on the console with him as his trainer, if you will, or on-the-job training type. Other positions had this, too. So for many of the shifts, Bill would be there, and I would come in with him for the difficult parts or what was more complicated. Actually, during the part of the accident where they discovered it, I was just coming on when the information began to come in."

While Pavelka went to do troubleshooting at the other consoles during Lunney's shift, Bill Stoval and Jerry Bostick provided support for Boone. Later after the PC+2 burn, Jay Greene would act as Boone's "supervisor" on the subsequent shifts, when he himself wasn't pulled away to attend planning meetings.

Description:
Boone is now working his back-to-back shift in the MOCR, having been on for the Maroon team (Milt Windler as FLIGHT) shift after the PC+2 burn and now filling in for Dave Reed during the Black team shift. Lunney has now posited to the Trench that in addition to making considerations in selecting a TIG time for the corridor control burn, they now need to factor in weather avoidance with a mild storm in the Mid-Pacific Line area.

FIDO Bill Boone calls up RETRO Chuck Dieterich to discuss weather avoidance. Whether it's due to fatigue, or perhaps overenthusiasm or trying to find something to do, Bill Boone initiates a bizarre exchange on the loops where he declares "we don't have any contraints [on when to do the weather avoidance burn] as long as it's between those two numbers [104 and 118 hours]." This immediately makes Chuck prickly. When Boone holds his ground and declares that he's simply trying to ensure they're both attacking the problem the same way, Chuck replies brusquely "I know what my job is, Bill."

Apparently Chuck was genuinely angry, since he snubs Boone later at 91:54:30. When they do finally get to talking again, Boone apologizes.

Link: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=091:46:05&ch=20
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / 089:40:59 Piss in the PLSS
« Last post by zootboy on September 28, 2024, 11:48:23 pm »
During a discussion on SURGEON-R about water allocation, there is discussion about the procedure for using urine as a substitute feedstock for the sublimators if things really get tight.

https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=089:40:59&ch=13

They definitely have some fun with that discussion:

Quote
> ...push all that good fluid out into the sublimator.
> Right. And sublimate the piss outta it! *Laughs*
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / 056:40:24 RETRO Spencer nixes direct abort
« Last post by MadDogBV on September 05, 2024, 11:09:59 am »
Pretty self-explanatory. During the height of the crisis, RETRO Bobby Spencer has run the numbers on how much it would cost to do a direct abort at T+60 - 10,000 ΔV (delta V, or available velocity). The numbers he gives to Maroon FLIGHT Milt Windler are unrealistic. Milt doesn't realize this at first as he tells Bobby "work on that", but soon they quickly come to the conclusion that it's not doable. Even the subsequent conversation involving 7,000 ΔV implies that they would have the SPS engine for an undocked burn.

They will not.

Link: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=056:40:24&ch=19
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At 133:00:49 GET during a last-minute review of the CSM entry checklist, Maroon FLIGHT Milt Windler tells RETRO Tom Weichel that the P-27 updates for a state vector and target load should only be done if absolutely necessary due to shortness of time. Since the order came directly from FLIGHT, RETRO just "rogers" it. But later on, it's clear that some dialogue is happening off the loops regarding how problematic this thinking is. In particular, YAW Gran Paulis points out that the crew doesn't even need to do anything while the loads are being submitted. He surmises Milt Windler must have thought that some reading-up of PADs were necessary to the crew.

FIDO Jay Greene, rather boldly and concisely, suggests that Paulis assumed too much too quickly about Milt's thought process.

Link: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=133:06:41&ch=20
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During the LM jettison, in a brief conversation with YAW Will Pressley, Jack Garman warns him that "transience in separation" might cause a CSM gimbal lock to occur. He's referring specifically to oscillations in attitude as a result of the delta-V imparted on the CSM in separation. The deadband isn't as much of a concern since the spacecraft is in a 5-degree deadband; thus, the middle gimbal angle is moving between 10 and 20 degrees from gimbal lock.

Later, one of the AGC support personnel calls the gimbal lock warning, but because his voice on the loop is so faint, it's missed and it's a full 3 or 4 seconds before anyone from the ground brings this to the attention of FLIGHT/CAPCOM. By that point, it's already too late and Swigert has already gone to direct control to correct this, but Garman does take this as an opportunity to remind Pressley of his concerns.

Link:
Before gimbal lock - https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=141:15:37&ch=22
Gimbal lock - https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=141:30:14&ch=22
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In "13 More Things That Saved Apollo 13", it notes that Jim Lovell put the Apollo 13 spacecraft 90 degrees out of the desired jettison attitude (LM yaw, CSM/body roll), since LM yaw was an out-of-plane orientation and going to the PAD attitude would have put the spacecraft in gimbal lock. In looking at the air-to-ground and PAO loop, there is no indication that there's any issue with this, as CAPCOM Joe Kerwin reassures Lovell that the yaw isn't critical.

In the trench, it's a much different story.

After Swigert's fantastic P52 which bypassed the need for a sun-moon alignment, there was a frantic effort by both the ground and the crew to get the LM jettisoned. As a result, Kranz never got a formal "go" from GUIDO Ken Russell for the jettison attitude. In the chaos, the "go" came from CONTROL Hal Loden, which created a stir in the trench. GUIDO pointed this out to FIDO Dave Reed and warned him that CDR Jim Lovell was bailing out of the LM, per the air-to-ground. Reed made a remark that would have been unthinkable coming from any other FIDO: "I'm gonna jam him (Lovell) back in!"

What follows is a very confused series of events, and it really benefits to listen to the whole loop from 141:02 to 141:10, as it progresses from the trench bickering and arguing over the safety of the jettison attitude (the normally cool and professional Dave Reed audibly vacillates on whether the attitude is safe), with FAO and CONTROL jumping in to provide their input. In the end, the question is brought to FLIGHT, Gene Kranz, with the eventual determination that they have no choice but to accept the new jettison attitude. Either way, this is arguably the moment of greatest panic throughout the entry prep for the Trench.

Quote
FIDO: We need to have Jim take the LM to the FDAI angles that we gave him on the LM jettison pad!
FLIGHT: How far off is he?
RETRO: Flight--he's gonna jettison the service module to the north--I mean, the LM to the north. We don't want him to the north, we want him to the south.

One thing of note about this exchange is that Kerwin asks if the concern is about the impact on the landing point of the atomic fuel cask (as mentioned in the article), but RETRO Chuck Deiterich explains, as he does in the article, that they simply want to ensure that the LM and CSM don't collide in the jettison. This is supported by the fact that Dave Reed later checks the relative motion of both spacecrafts with the new attitude, and verifies that both will be okay.

Link:
FIDO - https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=141:02:53&ch=20
GUIDO - https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=141:02:53&ch=21
CONTROL - https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=141:02:53&ch=57
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Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Re: 072:05:17 - Woman's voice
« Last post by zootboy on August 03, 2024, 03:09:16 pm »
Some additional discussion about the source of the issue on NETWORK:

https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=072:10:20&ch=11

https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=072:16:41&ch=11

Mention of a patching issue in the Madrid microwave link, and the fact that they switched to an alternate channel while they monitor the original channel to see if the crosstalk reappears.
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General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by Kasper on July 31, 2024, 08:47:42 am »
Any Apollo 16 update? Or is it never going to happen?
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During the read-up of the CSM entry checklist to Jack Swigert, Ken Mattingly deviates from the checklist momentarily to talk to Jack Swigert about how to bring the computer out of standby.

AGC specialist Jack Garman, who had already been grousing with Steve Bales earlier in the day about ensuring that the computer procedures were properly detailed, explodes with exasperation upon hearing this, as he believes that Swigert is being fed incorrect information. Even Swigert himself seems to sound confused; as Garman explains to Bales, since the computer would have been powered up for a while by this time and would have already gone to standby, the 37 06 would not come up automatically as Mattingly is claiming.

Later, Garman stalwartly predicts that Swigert is going to get to this point in the checklist and then call down to Houston with a complaint that the computer doesn't work.

Garman later turns out to be correct.

URL: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=126:41:26&ch=22
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A follow-up post for those who were interested in the actual nitty-gritties of how the flight controllers were planning to mitigate the SHe problem. Here's a briefing from Jay Greene to the SELECT on duty (John "Al" Layton) at 107:45 GET:

Link: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=107:45:53&ch=20
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