This forum is for discussion about content found on https://apolloinrealtime.org 

Very little of the thousands of hours of Mission Control audio on the website has been heard or documented. As you find moments of interest, post them here for discussion.

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21
General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by MadDogBV on November 27, 2023, 09:30:18 am »
Documentary authors have to weave a difficult line between being making a film that is appealing and compelling in the narrative sense, which does involve taking creative liberties, versus being as historically accurate as possible. Once upon a time, I thought it was more important to adhere to the latter principle, but I've come to realize that when most film reviewers - be they a professional like Roger Ebert or just the word of a friend whom you trust - scrutineer documentaries about topics such as the space program, they're not so concerned about whether or not the biomed readings were accurate. They are more focused on ensuring that the drama, ambition, wonderment, and scientific innovation of that time period was successfully captured on film so that the viewer can relive an enthralling and engaging if not believable simulation of those pivotal moments in human history.

Frankly, compared to other frequently-espoused historical myths, the implications of that rather pales in comparison to something like the infamous "the two stood eye to eye and the other fellow blinked" in reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis, a myth that persists in popular AND historical media to this day. 😁 I'd say "Apollo 11" gets a pass.

For strictly reliable secondary sources of the events that took place during the Apollo program, the best place to go would probably be the Apollo Flight Journal - and as for primary sources, I would say those would be the MOCR tapes themselves. It's wonderful that NASA had such a keen eye towards posterity particularly in those days.
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by Stephen Slater on November 27, 2023, 08:44:53 am »
I was the archive producer of the "Apollo 11" film.

As Ben says, there's nothing materially misleading in the film, and any "liberties" that were taken are well within the boundaries of acceptable techniques for documentary makers.

It could be argued that the Collins biomed sensor quote mentioned was in some way misleading, but I don't think it really matters where that line was used because it doesn't pertain to any particular significant milestone in the flight, and we aren't claiming that it was. It essentially could have happened at any point... I think there would be more of an issue if we'd specifically linked it to an important sequence, e.g placing it during the landing.

The same goes for the "Mother Country" music sequence... the section of the on board audio when we know the music was played wasn't from Day 7, it was from when they were in lunar orbit... but this makes no material difference... they had the music with them on the on board tapes, and as used in the film it's essentially a montage sequence, backed by a song they were historically verified as having with them. The audience understands the "rules" of the "deception", for instance as Ben says, they know when we see a shot of the command module with Mike Collins "alone" in lunar orbit that there wasn't a cameraman out there filming him in a spacecraft while Neil and Buzz were on the surface.

The problem is where filmmakers actually try and change the historical events to suit the narrative they want to tell, and change the historical truth of events, so that would be us including something like Neil Armstrong throwing the bracelet into the crater for his daughter... we don't have any evidence that it happened, so it's inappropriate to use that in a documentary. Where these boundaries are can be subjective, but I think most credible documentarians understand where the line is.
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General Discussion / Re: Apollo 11 Distance from Earth Mistake
« Last post by bfeist on November 26, 2023, 01:26:59 pm »
Sorry for the delay. Thank you for this, yes it was a mistake. It has been corrected.
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General Discussion / Re: Is the moon sphere of influence included in the velocity stats?
« Last post by bfeist on November 26, 2023, 01:23:27 pm »
Sorry for the super long delay. Somehow I missed your message.
The numbers are always Earth referenced in the dashboard. The TEI burn doesn't contain the velocity changes because they weren't being announced by the PAO--the Apollo in Real Time team didn't have any mission telemetry streams to work with as that data was all discarded after the mission.
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by bfeist on November 26, 2023, 12:15:34 pm »
Depends what you want to define as "inaccuracy". I mean, the entire film's ambient sound was designed because all of the original historical footage was silent. I suppose technically, that's "inaccurate". You could go from there to the film's use of footage that wasn't shot during the Apollo 11 mission, then continue all the way up to listing mistakes in the film (there are a few).

I can honestly say that the film contains no inaccuracies that misinform the public. This is an important line that the whole team took very seriously.

Actually, just last week Bill Barry, NASA Chief Historian (ret) just accepted the Trask Award from the Society for History in the Federal Government. In his speech he talks about the importance of not misinforming the public when making historical films. He also had some kinds words for Apollo in Real Time.
https://youtu.be/ZtCs-RV_Lek?si=5ONNWdwqrNdCQAvN&t=2243
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by Naraht on November 26, 2023, 05:25:17 am »
I'm not aware of anything like this, I'm afraid.

Why don't you do some research and pull a guide together, if it's a topic that interests you?
27
General Discussion / Re: Other Apollo Missions
« Last post by Kasper on November 25, 2023, 04:18:11 pm »
As noted in an earlier post, there was a delay - likely as a result of COVID-19 and budget constraints - and it looks like the end date of the project was pushed back to August 2024 according to NSF's award page.

Does that mean that Apollo 16 will be out in August 2024? If not, what is your best estimate when?
I cant wait 😁
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General Discussion / Re: Challenger STS-51L Flight Director loop
« Last post by SatelliteLily on November 25, 2023, 02:25:29 pm »
Thank you.  This brings back some memories and is very educational.

Virginia
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General Discussion / Re: Accurate edition of Apollo 11 (2019) movie?
« Last post by SpaceDonkey on November 25, 2023, 12:10:47 am »
Hello,

It is nice to interact again online. I was just rewatching the movie with some family friends (so awesome) and was reminded of this post. I didn't have notifications turned on.

I was wondering if there is an exhaustive list of the inaccuracies for my own education. Wikipedia only lists one, but after wondering about how the stage ignition footage was obtained I learned it was from a different mission for example.

Thanks!
30
General Discussion / Challenger STS-51L Flight Director loop
« Last post by Naraht on November 22, 2023, 07:42:21 am »
Apologies that this is slightly off-topic, but I thought people might be interested to listen to an extended version of the flight director loop during and after the Challenger disaster. This apparently isn't new but I hadn't heard the full recording before, which goes up until the controllers are released from their duties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJNvXCAiRE4

In particular, those of you who are acquainted with Jay Greene as an Apollo-era FIDO may be interested to hear him here as a Flight Director, during one of NASA's darkest hours. (His last mission. Perhaps unsurprisingly, he chose not to return to Mission Control after this.)

Having heard him frequently joking around when calling checkpoints during the Apollo program, I find it almost unbearably poignant to hear him here reminding the GC that they need a checkpoint. Not to mention his words at the end telling controllers not to speak with anyone about what happened.
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