This forum is for discussion about content found on https://apolloinrealtime.org 

Very little of the thousands of hours of Mission Control audio on the website has been heard or documented. As you find moments of interest, post them here for discussion.

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91
I find the clashes weirdly entertaining too. When they are trying to do the last midcourse on the way to Earth, there's basically what amounts to a screaming match that breaks out on the RETRO loop between himself and GUIDO, over whether or not the spacecraft is rolled out of plane. It does fortunately resolve amicably -- thankfully for the crew...

Link: https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=137:18:21&ch=19
92
Thank you very much for the information. Here's my transcript of this exchange:
-----------

59:06:29 Procedures [Jim Fucci]: EECOM, Procedures, Mobile 1.
EECOM [Clint Burton]: Listen, I'd like to get a dedicated chart recorder to display back that Format 30, subformat 01
Procedures: Stand by. Format 30 subformat..
EECOM: 01
Procedures: ... 01
EECOM: Time 55:50 to 56:10
Procedures: [repeating] 55:50 to 56:10
EECOM: right, and whatever site was looking at it at that time, doesn't matter which one.
Procedures: Goldstone.
59:07:25 EECOM: Procedures, EECOM
Procedures: Go.
EECOM: OK, I was just informed that we had low bitrate at that time. We're going to have to try to do that FM/FM. I have to come back to you on that.
Procedures: [mildly annoyed] You guys got a DLOG on that thing
EECOM: Yeah, but we're looking for higher sample rates.
Procedures: [more annoyed and skeptical] Higher sample rate than a DLOG?
EECOM: Say again?
Procedures: You're saying, a higher sample rate than your DLOG?
EECOM: Yeah.
Procedures [indignantly]: Do you realize that FM/FM is going to take a 30 minute calibration and then a recalibration...
EECOM: We had a good problem here. We'd like to get all the data we can on it.
Procedures [skeptically]: Okaaaayy
EECOM: Let me get back to you with the pertinent information here.
Procedures: OK.

One reason I thought this was interesting is that it illustrates how some Procedures type people I've encountered behave in organizations I've worked at. They really like procedures and they really like additional work that alters those procedures, no matter what the reason. This conversation was about 3 hours after the accident when EECOM and many others were no doubt unsure if a successful return could even happen, and they obviously needed every possible bit of data they could get.

In general, I find the clashes between the different groups, each with their own specialties, for limited resources interesting. For example, when GNC insisted that the IMU heaters needed full power before Glynn objected (about 90 minutes after the accident I think); or GNC and EECOM both wanting a PTC roll just after the accident when every system on the CSM was failing and the CSM was venting before Gene demurred.

93
Thanks - that's an interesting exchange and also very interesting information you provided. Here's my transcript
Quote
59:06:29 Fucci (Procedures): EECOM, Procedures, Mobile 1.
Clint (EECOM): Listen, I'd like to get a dedicated chart recorder to display back that Format 30, subformat 01
Procedures: Stand by. Format 30 subformat..
EECOM: 01
Procedures: ... 01
EECOM: Time 55:50 to 56:10
Procedures: [repeating] 55:50 to 56:10
EECOM: right, and whatever site was looking at it at that time, doesn't matter which one.
Procedures: Goldstone.
59:07:25 EECOM: Procedures, EECOM
Procedures: Go.
EECOM: OK, I was just informed that we had low bitrate at that time. We're going to have to try to do that FM/FM. I have to come back to you on that.
Procedures: [mildly annoyed] You guys got a DLOG on that thing
EECOM: Yeah, but we're looking for higher sample rates.
Procedures: [more annoyed and skeptical] Higher sample rate than a DLOG?
EECOM: Say again?
Procedures: You're saying, a higher sample rate than your DLOG?
EECOM: Yeah.
Procedures [indignantly]: Do you realize that FM/FM is going to take a 30 minute calibration and then a recalibration...
EECOM: We had a good problem here. We'd like to get all the data we can on it.
Procedures [skeptically]: Okaaaayy
EECOM: Let me get back to you with the pertinent information here.
Procedures: OK.





94
https://apolloinrealtime.org/13/?t=027:01:15&ch=46

This is at 27 hours GET, but there is clearly background discussion taking place with North American Gumman about burning the LM descent engine to relive Super Critical Helium (SCHe) pressure and the effect this will have on the amount of RCS propellant. The foreshadowing is interesting. I also switched to the CSM loop and they continue discussing it during the next few minutes and you can hear the incredulity in their voice and how unlikely they think it is that they will be forced to do a docked DPS burn... But at least there was a bunch of engineers preparing for an unlikely maneuver that would soon become mission critical in little over a day's time.
95
Hey kendradog!

That was Clint Burton, the Black Team EECOM. They had already scrounged up a couple of DLOGs up to that point, but because they weren't sure that the data was high bit-rate and they had no clue what caused the explosion to begin with, he needed an even higher sample rate which could only be done through the FM/FM recorder. He was requesting it from Jim Fucci, PROCEDURES, but ultimately Fucci would be passing the request on to the COMP SUP who would be responsible for coordinating that. And yeah, he probably did think it was a real pain in the ass to do.

Link: 059:06:30 (PROCEDURES)

And that's actually not the first time Burton tried to request an FMFM from Fucci. He did so earlier in the mission as well, which resulted in a similarly annoyed response, although that one was easier to resolve.

Clint Burton had a reputation even among his backroom of being playback-happy, as did Sy Liebergot. Playbacks, while a useful form of data collection, were also a mild disruption to mission control for a number of technical reasons; it would disrupt other real-time data sources picked up by controllers in the MOCR and also meant a computer checkpoint (the 1960s equivalent of saving data) would have to be delayed if one was needed.
96
Apollo 13 Moments of Interest / Multiple times - "Listen to the air-to-ground!"
« Last post by MadDogBV on July 27, 2023, 07:27:44 pm »
Every flight controller (with the occasional exception of the FIDO officer) was expected to listen to the air-to-ground loop any time that the crew started transmitting, so that the crew wouldn't have to waste time repeating themselves and also to ensure any urgent questions or comments were addressed. Any controller who repeatedly failed to do so would usually find themselves shown out of the MOCR with another controller to take their place.

But even on Apollo 13, some controllers would be caught flat-footed. Below is a list of links to instances in which FLIGHT reprimanded the controller for apparently failing to listen to the loop.

Link 1: 060:47:52 - Black FLIGHT (Lunney) to INCO (Scott)
Link 2: 073:24:16 - Gold FLIGHT (Griffin) to CONTROL (Wegener)
Link 3: 084:28:16 - Maroon FLIGHT (Windler) to FAO (Gardner)

And at about 139:39:11, a little bonus clip here where YAW (I think Pressley or Wells?) tells INCO (Hanchett) to listen to the air-to-ground during an exchange that essentially amounts to YAW saying "We're too busy to do your work, INCO."
97
General Discussion / Private communications (Apollo 9 content)
« Last post by Day Quinn on July 24, 2023, 11:30:59 am »
In the transcripts for Apollo 9, McDivitt wants to talk to Houston on a private loop. presumeably to discuss Schweickart's space sickness (see images).

How did they set this up? Did they have some sort of encryption?
98
Outstanding effort here, to whoever's done this.  I've had so much fun with it the past few days.

I have a query about the dashboard.
After the TEI burn, the velocity stats are markedly different from what the PA is reporting.
Also the craft seems to still be accelerating after the burn has finished.
Sorry, should have mentioned this is the Apollo 11 stream.

Is the velocity on the dashboard just an illustration, or is there a parameter missing?

Thanks.
99
Apollo 11 Moments of Interest / Re: CONTROL and the bet on Eagle's lifespan
« Last post by bfeist on July 24, 2023, 08:04:08 am »
What interesting research! I wonder if any papers were published at the time about this result. Thank you very much for contributing this to the forum.
100
This was an interesting exchange between I think INCO or maybe PROCEDURES and someone trying to get DLOGs I think.

The back room controller was trying to persuade some support person to do something with the network, maybe something complex involving getting a DLOG although I'm not sure. The back-end person was complaining that what was asked for would be a lot of work. The controller said something like "we've got a good problem here" and "we need the best data we can". The controller had a distinctive drawl. It was interesting because the exchange illustrated how, like humans throughout history, most workers were mostly interested in minimizing their own work. The obscure back-end person was probably accustomed to requests to do with simulations and tests and reflexively didn't want to do extra work. The back room controller was in a very understated way justifying his request.

Sadly, I forgot the time this occurred. Probably within 2 hours of the accident if not sooner.
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